Preserve Graydon: Concrete Handicap Ramp is a Bad Idea
Citing concerns with impervious surfaces and "better" alternatives available, PGC says proposed handicap ramp is not the way to go at Graydon
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Pdfs
[Editor's note: The following letter to the editor was submitted by the Preserve Graydon Coalition (PGC). At the right of this article contains several attachments –the full grant application; a schematic drawing of the ramp and sidewalk; and another document exploring alternatives to a concrete ramp at Graydon Pool. The following note is unedited.]
To the Editor:
Once again, paving threatens Graydon Pool–not the whole pool this time, but an important part of it.
The Village Council has applied to the County Freeholders for a $60,000 block grant for a concrete ramp leading into the 12-foot section of the swimming area. The ramp, including a $12,600 aluminum handrail drilled into the patio wall, would begin with a long concrete sidewalk at the corner of the bathroom building and cover the sand along the front of the Pavilion. It would circle the north spillway, then make two 90-degree turns before entering the water in a 34-foot stretch along the wall below the patio, ending with a landing platform of a few more feet.
In the grant application – posted at preservegraydon.org – the village cites as a basis for the design "our review and discussions with residents and those who use the facility." Sounds good, but no needs assessment was done. No general discussions with residents were held. And this ill-conceived plan would neither satisfy Graydon patrons nor remove barriers; in fact, it would add some.
The application states that Ridgewood would spend an additional $15,000 in municipal funds on the concrete project. Yet with modern materials and devices, the desired effect could be achieved non-invasively, less expensively and to serve a far broader population.
Allendale's Crestwood Lake, another municipal lake with a sandy beach, meets Americans with Disabilities Act requirements with a beach wheelchair that goes over sand, a floating wheelchair that goes into water and folds flat for storage (mobi-chair.com), and removable water-permeable roll-out mats (which Graydon doesn't need).
At Graydon, a floating wheelchair could easily enter the water at the spot near the lap lanes in the 4-foot area where part of the low fieldstone wall has been removed. This shallower area, close to The Stable's about-to-be-upgraded parking lot, would accommodate all ages and abilities, whereas a ramp into the deep end would be harder to reach and suit few or none. In any case, a water-safe wheelchair would have to be bought for water entry; metal wheelchairs are not used on sand or in pools.
Among many other problems: A ramp in the northeast corner would catch detritus floating toward the spillway, creating an unsightly safety hazard. Seniors and others desiring a firm, quick foothold into the water would not choose to traverse a 40-foot ramp. They merely want existing ramps upgraded.
Of likely concern to countless residents, whether Graydon patrons or not, is the large amount of impervious material that would be added to the flood hazard area 12 months a year in a pool used three months a year. Our village engineer noted at a recent meeting that we would never reduce flooding until we stopped paving the floodway. What part of Hurricane Irene don't we understand?
If council members want Graydon kept natural, as four claim they do, and wish to make Graydon more barrier free without exacerbating flooding, they will seek better alternatives and withdraw the application, or if the grant money is offered, refuse it.
Marcia Ringel
Co-Chair, The Preserve Graydon Coalition
Dominick Nizza
8:29 am on Monday, March 5, 2012
Are you a little confused again:
1. Ramps not acceptable
2. Inflatable tubes not acceptable
3. An acceptable redesign of Graydon not acceptable
4. Continued loss of $100,000 annually not acceptable
5. Loss of 4,500 members for Graydon not acceptable
6. What might be more acceptable is to finally shut down the muddy mud hole.
7. Maybe to finally admit to getting back to the drawing board.
RdgwdGRock
10:51 am on Monday, March 5, 2012
how about a cooperative agreement between the village/graydon and the ymca for special needs people. the ymca has two pools (clear water) with lifts. seems to me if the graydon special needs badges are honored at the ymca, it is a win. esp in that the ymca can then have the potential to p/u these users on a year-round basis.
Dominick Nizza
11:20 am on Monday, March 5, 2012
Good idea for the limited number of special needs people. But, in the Summer most indoor pools are not so comfortable for all levels of swimmers
Concerned Ridgewood Dad
11:15 am on Monday, March 5, 2012
Quoting Ms. Ringel's letter:
"Once again, paving threatens Graydon Pool–not the whole pool this time, but an important part of it"
"Allendale's Crestwood Lake, another municipal lake with a sandy beach"
Marcia, Which is it already, a "lake" or a "pool"? Since Graydon meets state safety standards for "Pond/Lake water", I think you should refrain from referring to it as a "pool" in future letters to the editor.
RdgwdGRock
11:27 am on Monday, March 5, 2012
Dom "But, in the Summer most indoor pools are not so comfortable for all levels of swimmers". what do you mean by this? I have a Y swim membership, and both pools are nice year-round. plus, they are not mud holes.
Dominick Nizza
12:40 pm on Monday, March 5, 2012
Ridgewood Guy, I didn't say indoor pools were mud holes, I was describing the desire of all levels of swimmers in the Summer time to swim outdoors, when the weather starts getting "real hot". I have experienced swimming outdoors with snow on the ground, with heated water, in upstate NY but, that's another story about skiing resorts. Oh yes, I've done my homework on indoor and outdoor combination swimming designs.
.
Dominick Nizza
12:57 pm on Monday, March 5, 2012
See latest photo of a year round all weather indoor and and outdoor design. Now that's worth planning and designing for don't you think?
RdgwdGRock
1:17 pm on Monday, March 5, 2012
Dom - everyone cannot have it all. there has to be some sort of reasonable concessions. if a partnership can be created with the ymca for special needs people, then this mitigates the needs for all sorts of concrete work at graydon. spec needs people can still enjoy the great outdoors at various parks.
WoodMom
5:26 pm on Monday, March 5, 2012
Please note that the Oak Street facility is jointly owned by both the YMCA Ridgewood and YWCA Bergen County. The YWCA also offers adaptive and therapeutic programs as well for special needs. http://ywcabergencounty.org/programs/fitness/aquatherapy_arthritis.html
RdgwdGRock
8:36 pm on Monday, March 5, 2012
I would think that the Y would be receptive to some sort of cooperative program with the Village that in the long run could lead to the Y gaining new members. Starfleet and the Klingon Empire found (or will find) a way to work together
limabean
11:08 pm on Monday, March 5, 2012
How many people with disabilities are we talking about exactly. How much do we plan on increasing the cost of a badge to accommodate...I am sure too high that will prevent anyone from attending. Heck we cannot even get the regular subscribe up....this is absurd....the YMCA sends pretty accommodating
Tricia Mueller
9:30 am on Tuesday, March 6, 2012
hmmm...targeting a minority group and saying where they can and cannot swim. I thought Rosa Parks took care of this type of issue when she refused to give up her seat on that bus back in 1955. Sad that the disabled and elderly have been dragged into the lobbying efforts of the Preserve Graydon group. If the Village has a plan to improve accessibility at Graydon and gets money from the County to pay for the majority of it ($60,000) how could any person (or group) publicly lobby against it in the year 2012? The impervious coverage argument sounds silly in this situation. If a few yards of sidewalk and ramp are going to tip the balance and create a flood, we should investigate removing a portion of the parking lot and adding grass until the membership at Graydon gets back to sufficient numbers to warrant those parking spaces. These improvements would not likely cause an increase in badge fees since $60,000 would be funded by a grant from the County. A quick check of national statistics indicates approx. 18% of the U.S. population is disabled and 1 in 5 citizens is a senior. The addition of a ramp would benefit the disabled, the elderly and residents recovering from a sports injury etc. looking to swim for therapy-making Graydon available to more citizens and potentially increasing badge sales. Attempting to block or postpone accessibility or tell the disabled community they need to swim elsewhere when County funds are available to help them enjoy Graydon-unbelievable!
MaroonMom
10:58 am on Tuesday, March 6, 2012
Right on Tricia!!! Like, Like, Like!!!!!
Joe
12:07 pm on Tuesday, March 6, 2012
I completely agree!
RdgwdGRock
12:53 pm on Tuesday, March 6, 2012
Tricia and MarronMom - both of you take a very simplistic approach, and by using the Rosa Parks analogy you have no true understanding of history.
Joe is correct in saying "You seem to be taking a very narrow view of disabled". I have a spexcial needs sister who requires full-time care, and I wouldn't want her to be in the Graydon mudhole. Special needs people can be:
1) Disabled in outward appearance and requiring physical assistance (such as a wheelchair)
2) They may have breathing problems, or other ailments.
3) They may be challenged in terms of sight, hearing or speech.
4) And on and on and on.
How far do we implement special access and support for a facility that is open 2 1/2 months of the year? A fully functioning child drowned at Graydon. Will there need to be funding for lifeguards trained to assist special needs people? Will these dedicated lifeguards need to be right by the special needs people as they are in the water? What about assisting the hearing impaired (for example). Will the water require extra daily treatments for those with breathing and skin issues?
The solution of the YMCA is not to create seperate and not equal classes, but to better address those requiring extra help. The Y has two pools with clear water, and each pool has special access for the disabled and the elderly. I am a member, and gotten to meet a number of elderly who enjoy the Y facilities (and who would not use Graydon).
Vandy09
8:55 pm on Tuesday, May 8, 2012
There are plenty of ramps, Tricia. On a side note...not all classifications are the same as far as the law goes. Rosa Parks challenging race based classifications IS NOT the same as YOU challenging classifications based on handicaps. Just to give ya a quick con law run down, Race = strict scrutiny, Gender = intermediate scrutiny, Everything else is pretty much subjected to rational basis (sometimes with bite).
Alan Seiden
11:47 am on Tuesday, March 6, 2012
The concrete ramp proposal fails to provide access to too many, such as children, for whom the deep end of Graydon is inappropriate. The mobile solutions mentioned in the article would provide access more effectively for more people.
Joe
12:13 pm on Tuesday, March 6, 2012
You seem to be taking a very narrow view of "disabled." Not every disabled person is someone who needs or wants a wheelchair. What about a senior citizen who just wants to wade into the water on solid footing? Or a visually impaired person who will enter the water with an aide? Or a person recovering from knee surgery? Saying that all disabled persons should plop themselves into a floating wheelchair and consider that "access" is highly condescending. And telling seniors or disabled residents to go over to the Y and swim indoors is even worse. Tricia is right in her comment above...are you seriously advocating "separate but equal?" My family -- including our disabled members -- wants to enjoy Graydon Park together.
Katherine McCarthy
12:19 pm on Tuesday, March 6, 2012
Skateboarders will LOVE this ramp!!
Alan Seiden
12:34 pm on Tuesday, March 6, 2012
Joe raised an important point about people with painful knees or seniors who need help getting into the water. However, the proposed concrete ramp would be difficult for them, because with a proposed length of about 40 feet including the platform, it's longer than the national Access Board's guidelines--a long walk for people who have difficulty walking. For people who need help walking, the existing short ramps would be ideal, but need improvements--for example, adding a nonslip surface, improving the handrails. Different people need different kinds of help, hence a specific Access Board guideline for people who can walk but need some help.
RdgwdGRock
12:59 pm on Tuesday, March 6, 2012
Alan - Agreed! My mother-in-law has parkinson's, and a wheel-chair ramp would not work for her. You point gets back to my comments about the "disabled" being a variety of people with special needs and requirments. To reiterate, since a fully functioning child drowned at Gradon, how can the Village 100% protect those with special needs partakingof Graydon?
limabean
9:00 pm on Tuesday, March 6, 2012
Wow I do not know where to begin. First no one is prejudice here to let's get off of that soap box. second any good business professional understand there should be a cost justification, a business needs and benefit analysis, risk assessment. Just because someone else is paying for it doesn't mean we should ask say yes. The additional insurance risks are big enough for us to say no. regardless what color or age.
jp1
12:04 pm on Wednesday, March 7, 2012
Who pays for all this ADA compliance?
Dominick Nizza
7:19 am on Thursday, March 8, 2012
The costs for any changes at the Pond will be added to the Graydon operation and charged to its users and members. Tough pill to swallow isn't it.
Tricia Mueller
8:59 am on Thursday, March 8, 2012
Actually, if you read the letter it states that the Village has applied for a grant from the County to cover $60,000 of the costs. The Village would have to pay for the addition of a handrail.