Sorry, I don't live near Valley and we are from here, family here over half a century. We have supported every other Valley expansion since the 50's but did not support the last plan. We also have donated time and money to Valley over many years.

I think anyone who knows me will tell you I'm far from stupid, selfish, or a" NIMBY idiot.". This is my hometown and I'm for what I feel is in Ridgewood's best interest, all things considered. My opinion of last plan and yours are obviously different, but that doesn't make me (nor all the others who opposed it) any of the things you say above.

It was not the "first" Valley expansion, either. The orig. Valley building (now gone) was where docs now park. Then Phillips (oldest part now) was added, making it a much larger place. Then Bergen was added later, then Cheel.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. But please don't disparage those who don't agree with you. You might alienate folks like me who may well NOT be against a different Valley plan.

Reply To 'Ridgewooder'.
I'm glad there are not many people with your mentality living here. Our homes would be worthless. It is short-sightedness and ignorance likes yours that causes problems in our world. Why don't you move to Iran ? You would feel at home there.

First of all, using such negative and ignorant language speaks very poorly of you. And we are not selfish, Valley was selfish in their "we own this town and will do whatever we want" attitude! Ridgewood was here before Valley was built and will be here if it ever decides to move. They don't pay taxes, don't employ the majority of our citizens, etc. Get your facts straight. Ignorance in your case is not bliss.

Then move on over to van Dien or Linwood and lecture the "selfish NIMBY idiots" about their selfishness over quality of life, home values, property damage, etc. Come on Woody, show the NIMBYs the error of their ways. By the way, if Valley comes up with a reasonable plan and avoids the secrecy, misleading info and idiotic pr gaffes, maybe something can get done.

Eastside dad,
The question is; What have you done about it ?

Actually Eastside Dad. That is not true. In fact, many members, if you read their letters to the editor and Ridgewood Patch, have attended meetings regarding those issues. If you noticed, we were formed before these things became larger and important concerns.

I didn't name the group. But I suspect the reason was to show how seriously concerned we were about the expansion. Also, there aren't enough resources, which includes hiring a lawyer, and which we fund ourselves, to spread ourselves so thin. The reason we care so much about Valley is that, like the new development plans, over expansion will greatly impact Ridgewood permanently. And by the way, it will also affect pedestrian safety near Valley and in town.

Rose everything you have said about name-calling and bullying is true. It's hard to remain civil when falsehoods are bandied about as truths. And bullies believe anonymity gives them the right to spew garbage.

What you have said about he project has been true. The problem is that people refuse to understand our concerns and choose to ignore or are ignorant of the facts.

You are also right about the underground garage, which would disturb the water table and definitely impact neighboring houses. After all the storm damage I can't imagine what other damage to the trees and homes would occur when another major storm will occur, and it will.

We want an normal expansion, not one that will destroy the neighboring real estate values, endanger BF, etc. By the way, most people don't know that last time Valley wanted a major expansion, they encroached on some of BF's fields and they wanted to put an underground garage under some of the playing field. This would've given strangers coming to the hospital, access to our BF students and would've had car exhaust being vented through the astroturf where the children would be seriously affected.

The reason it was put partially underground, if I remember correctly, is because can you imagine the visual impact a huge parking structure would have on the neighborhood? And the reason for the single rooms, was mentioned over and over by Valley as being a necessity because of government rules which supposedly state that, if you do a massive renovation whereby you knock down buildings and start from scratch! And most hospitals make money now by outpatients services and surgeries! Or surgeries with one night stays. There are rarely surgeries today that include long term stays.

That was brought up many times to Valley and it was typically ignored. That will become a bigger problem when Obamacare comes into play, which I believe is 2014. I doubt Obamacare will pay for that and insurance companies keep increasing their premiums for the same or less services. So talking about losing money, why doesn't Valley concentrate on their diagnostic services and outpatient surgeries, which are truly becoming our future. How many people do you know who have had long term hospital stays? It is becoming rare and rarer.

Do you think the plan they had put forward was fine as is? Did you see the impact estimates in terms of foundation damage, traffic disruption etc.? Why no hint of compromise until the 11th hour? They need to modernize but not an expansion that would damage homes in a large radius as well as the little detail of a middle school next door. A compromise plan can be had but the tone deaf approach, hiding of details and the misleading pr stunts showed an arrogance towards the residents in the immediate area. Upgrade, absolutely, massive expansion, no way.

For rb- Sorry, but your logic seems flawed. I was against last Valley Plan and we don't live near it. So were many others not near the site. My family's been here almost as long as Valley has, and supported every other expansion plan --but not the last one. So those opposing last plan were not only "next to Valley".

To me, last plan was too much for both the site and for Ridgewood. Only a small percentage of Valley's patients are from here, yet we were going to be saddled with many by-products of that plan, which also seemed wrong -espec. when you consider they pay zero in prop taxes (new Pascack IS paying taxes, btw).

A new, more modest plan might be OK with me-- the devil's in the details . Fine to be the host community, but within reason and respecting this is a built-up town that is mainly residential, unlike some others nearby. That and schools are what attract many people here in 1st place.

But not fine to burden Village with even more costs, more infrastructure probs, signif more traffic and other "side effects" that will be lasting ones I think. We are already at nosebleed taxes as it is.

Most want Valley to upgrade and stay excellent- me too. But last plan involved more than that. Fact is Valley gets top ratings right now, and many services are handled off site-- look at Luckow, also dialysis center in F/Lawn, etc. So, that works.

Upgrade/modernize the Linwood campus sensibly- but not a huge regional center on that site.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am not next to Valley, I am a couple of blocks away, and yet I will be affected. After their last renovation, they openly lied and said there would be no more major renovations. And what about the students from BF and Travell and the neighbors who moved to Ridgewood NOT because they were across the street from Valley, I know I didn't! They moved here because they wanted to live in a small town, a village, not a city! And if we had not stopped Valley, and if those 4 developments being contemplated were built, what do you think Ridgewood would look like? Not a safe place to raise a family. That's why most of us moved here.

You are right Paul, and if he had seen the plans, unless he worked for Valley, he couldn't agree in good conscience agree to it. The majority of people who want this development either have a connection to Valley, or have major health needs and are only concerned about their own health and those who have ignored the situation from the very beginning. As far as tone deaf, Valley was never honest, tone deaf, and did nothing until they realized they were losing! These are the kind of people you want to trust with our town?

Linda, they were so arrogant they truly believed that they would get what they wanted, with no opposition. They were wrong. Because of CRR they have had to go back to the drawing board. And now, I'm hoping because of the proposed developments, more people will take a second look and realize that doubling Valley would be a huge mistake.

RB I especially love the traffic experts, for Valley and a proposed development off of Paramus Road. Both times, the "experts", paid for by the groups, did surveys when traffic was lighter, as in August! And even one for Valley and one of the develompent's traffic "experts" admitted that we had major traffic problems that have to be fixed. Try driving on Franklin Ave. after 11:00 AM during the week, never mind on the weekend. And this is a problem now, even before traffic will be increased. How many more accidents, and actual deaths do we have to have before people pay attention? One accident is one too many and we've had way more than that in the last few years.

Are you kidding? Why don't YOU move away? Do you expect residents to pack up like the Joad family and move on? If something outrageous is approved, hits to housing prices will not be limited to the immediate area but will have a contagion effect. Lower prices= lower assessments= lower collections (or raised assessment rates). Not to mention the potential damage to home foundations over a considerable area and resulting litigation- the original plan was too large.

Megan I don't know what planet you come from, but getting rid of the good neighbors right now, will bring in transient renters. That is what has happened to other hospitals that are NOT sided on three sides by residents. Do you want us to become the town of Hackensack? I would rethink your statement. And by the way would be curious where you live and how you would be not affected or affected by the doubling of Valley Hospital.

As I have said before, this is Ridgewood, NOT Valleywood. We were here first, and I hope we remain so. I would like to stay here as long as feasibly possible and it won't happen if Valley doubles in size.

Not when you are single-mindedly arrogant and have a lot of money, from revenue and major contributions to back you up.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I am not the only person who doesn't want the developments. So far they have not had many meetings that I know of. I plan on attending the next public one, when I hear of it. It wasn't very well publicized because I missed it. And it's only in the beginning stages with meetings. I agree about the pedestrians being run down. After what I've seen while driving in town, I expect more people to be hit. And letting Valley double in size will definitely affect pedestrian safety because of the increased traffic. Keeping the streets around the schools safe is just as important.

During the last round it was revealed that about 6 percent of Valley's patients are from Ridgewood the rest are from all over. So hardly "many residents." Also Ridgewood was incorporated in 1894. Valley was build in the middle of a residential neighborhood about 60 years later. I'd say the neighborhood was there first. From the 1950's the hospital has slowly grown into a giant corporation that is over taking the neighborhood that it moved into. Maybe the original builders of the hospital meant for it to remain a small community hospital, maybe they were short sighted. Either way the current site is overbuilt. Sorry to say, but sometimes those pesky facts get in the way of a good story.

Like you say, there needs to be compromises on BOTH sides- In the last go-round Valley was not budging on size and scale, the 11th hour theatrics showed that clearly. I don't think anyone is saying do nothing. There needs to be upgrades that will include some expansion but it needs to be reasonable.

Get your facts straight. When they built the hospital in the 1950's they did not envision Ridgewood or the Hospital to grow to this size. Also, a very small percentage of residents work at Valley and a small percentage use Valley, except for the ER. We checked the facts out years ago. And Valley has many volunteers, which my daughter was one of, and they solicit money from them all the time. The only reason employees spend any money was because it was a directive from the Hospital. How do they spend money? They work here go home, unless they live in Ridgewood. They only have to have private rooms, if they knock buildings down. Not if they do renovations. Get your facts straight! We were willing to make compromises, from the very beginning Valley refused to because they assumed they would win.

For Interested Resident: Ridgewood's pop has not grown that much since Valley has been here. The last big developments in town were done in the 50s. Using 1960 as a baseline, when pop was 25,391, it has not changed much.

What HAS grown is the population of many surrounding towns that the majority of Valley's patients come from. source for old figures here:
http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/labor/lpa/census/1990/poptrd6.htm
for more current figures here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridgewood,_New_Jersey

Compare that to some surrounding towns over same time periods. Again, big majority of patients come from other towns, espec after Pascack was closed.

Also, fact is that HIPAA regs do NOT require private rooms, you can find a lot of info on that online. And per testimony from the last go-round on all this, NJ regs also do not require all private rooms for existing hospitals. See this link:
http://www.northjersey.com/news/96709089_Valley_Hospital_states_its_case_for_expansion.html

I'm not against private rooms, btw. But fact is that most insur. plans only pay for semi-private rooms unless there is a med necessity for private. See my other post above for questions on that, too.

Another fact is that property taxes are what supports the local govt and services, not much else. Valley does not pay any. By the way, new Pascack IS going to pay prop taxes to its host community.

Yeah, let's clarify some things, but pls get the facts right.

Thank you Andrew for saying that. What we need is money. Unlike Valley, we have no wealthy contributors and we have been paying for a lawyer for quite some time from the money we raise from our members. People only complain after something is accomplished and it's too late to do anything about it. Our website is stopvalley.com. We can use donations and you can see what's going on and sign up for emails.

How do you know that the patients are visiting Ridgewood to shop? Where are your statistics? Plus, the reality is NOT that we don't want single patient rooms, but what insurance company is going to pay for them? Valley will become a hospital for the rich if that were to come to fruition. Plus we have plenty of other people coming here to shop and eat in our restaurants. Do you actually believe that by coming to Valley they would automatically come to our downtown? And what hotels are you talking about? We have NO hotels in Ridgewood. So that statement makes no sense! And I have seen patients have to share rooms, but the reality is that good medical care is much more important that single rooms! Because you keep ignoring the fact, that the majority of patients do not stay more than a day or so. And as medical personnel have told me, the last place you want to be when you are sick is in a hospital! Single patient rooms don't prevent medical mistakes, and poor medical care and germs being spread. I don't remember the exact amount, but I know it's in the single digits, which is not good for a town our size.

"Interested Resident" - pls read material at this link:
www.ridgewoodnj.net/pdf/Assmt/SG-Prop_Taxes.pdf

One quote from it, but pls read whole thing: (quote)
Among States that collect sales, income and property taxes, only in New Jersey do property tax collections exceed sales and income tax collections, combined. In New Jersey, property taxes account for about 98% of all locally collected revenues.
(end )

I didn't say I'm against private rooms, quite the opposite. My mom died in a semi priv. room at Valley. I can tell you many stories of suffering. But if most insurance only pays for semi-priv, isn't that a problem? See earlier post in this thread.

I'm not against Valley modernizing. Again, my family is here a long time and supported every other Valley expansion since the 1950s, but not last plan. We have also donated to Valley and been patients there.

But upgrade and modernize in a way appropriate both to the site and also to the Village. Many Valley services are now done off campus - and that works. I'm not against Valley, but was against last plan because I'm concerned with the Village's best interest. Valley is def part of that, but the last plan -- at least to me - was not.

your last point
Pop size of Village has not chngd much since 60s, but Valley has grown much bigger during same time, both svcs and beds. I like that, but more for the site like last plan sought seems too much for Vill to me.

I must have missed the grand opening, but can you please tell me where the Ridgewood Hotel is that is raking in all this money from out of town patients?

Actually re: Brooklyn, there are excellent hospitals in NYC. No need to come here, regarding the other hospitals, good for your relatives. But what you have illustrated is what many of you people refuse to acknowledge, Valley is fine the way it is! It doesn't need to expand and what about Pascack Valley? It would have been closer to Nyack but because Valley and other hospitals tried to keep it closed, your Dad had to travel farther to get good care!

absolutely! Too much entitlement and not enough gratitude.

Robin, on who's part are you saying that? The residents of Ridgewood or Valley, because if you mean the residents you would be wrong. We love having Valley the size it is in Ridgewood! We just don't want a behemoth structure near a school and residents. If you mean Valley, you would be right. They feel whatever they need we should accept what they want to do and be happy with it.

NYC means Manhattan too. World class hospitals and Pascack Valley is being renovated. It will not be the same place because Hackensack is connected and they have a great reputation. And it is closer. I know where Nyack is, because it's near where my daughter goes to school in Orangeburgh, NY, so Pascack is on the way before Valley. Actually I know people who have been in hospitals in Manhattan and maybe you need to spend time in the real world, because you don't know the difference between NYC and Brooklyn. Valley doesn't need to improve because it's a great hospital, it's proof you haven't been there recently, I have for tests and other friends for surgery. And re: Will Rogers and if you keep moving you can go over a cliff if you don't watch where you are going!

You are right longtimer66. I had one friend who was treated by an oncologist and surgeon who came from Columbia and got excellent care. I also know someone who had brain surgery recently for cancer and got great care but was referred to Hackensack by her Valley surgeon for radiation and chemo treatment. I think what Valley needs to do is accept what they are good at, and expand those areas and understand and accept their weaknesses and concede that patients can receive better treatment in those areas somewhere else.

You are right. A some opinions are based on ignorance, however many are based on fact. The problem is knowing the difference.

And there are two schools nearby, BF and Travell that will be affected if they get the right to DOUBLE in size. All you have to do is walk or drive by Valley and just imagine it being twice the size it is right now. That is untenable and a frightening thought. No longer would it be part of the neighbor, it would take over the neighborhood.

Ok I accept your arguement about Valley being a drain on the services and infrastucture of the village. So tell me if that was/is such a concern to you why when you moved to Ridgeowwd did you buy a home in a town with such a drain on the communities services? Just wondering.

HUMC is on the forefront of medical technology, a leader on the East coast, so no I don't have a problem going to HUMC. If they were as bad as you say then Valley would not consider them competition. Let's keep to the subject and not throw stones at competition in order to make Valley look better - poor argument and reflects more on you than it does on HUMC.

And an aside, you have to pay to park at Sloane Kettering too - would you choose Valley over Sloan Kettering for cancer treatment simply because you didn't want to pay for parking- silly!

AMAMOM
U did not really focus on question in my post. Imagine ridgewood without valley when that bad chest pain happens and that strange pain down your left arm. And uh oh no local hospital to get rushed to, so now the ambulance has to take you 8 miles away to Hackensack versus what could have been 2 or less. Been in this situation, and I choose local hospital closeby that saved a loved ones life. Also, as to the cancer remark and paying for parking, etc. Valley has top oncologists on staff, I know firsthand since Dr. Yingpruksaywan saved someone near and dear to me, and by the way Valley also has on staff one of the best cardiologists team as well. Would I pay for parking if I thought that facility could do any better than Valley, of course but that was just one of the many things I like about valley. U have to reread my post. And answer the question "imagine ridgewood without valley". And although I usually do not retaliate with nasty comments, nor do I invalidate someone's point of view, ur silly comment was not nice since u did not even answer the real question. By the way, I also have been in Hackensack many times and I never said it was a bad hospital, u did by pitting one against the other. I just said the parking situation is a nightmare, and u can go broke having to pay for parking at a hospital that u nay have a loved one at for let's say 3 mos in intensive care. Been there too. Do the math at $5 a day at Clara Maass.

the Team there Saved My father in Law asrecently as 4 years Ago In a drive up they came out and rushed him into the ER and performed a Miracle .My wife and I will always remember those Kind Proactive Professionals at Valley.We were 4 blocks away on walthery and needed Critical Help.Agree Valley is a very Valuable resource.

So now disgusted, after Valley has added to its facility over the years, and you have lived here all those years NOW you have come to the startling conclusion that Valley is a drain on the on the communities services? Really?

If I recall correctly disgusted, You directed your comment to me telling me about your parents moving to Ridgewood in 1956 and you were born in Valley Hospital in 1958 and how you watched Valley grow and become "too big for the neighborhood".

See your post above.

All of which is totally irrelevant to the topic. But you take exception to my asking when you came to the conclusion that Valley was a drain on the community and you say that is none of my business. Strange, very strange. Thou protest too much me thinks!

There will not be a Ridgewood without Valley. Besides the excellent quality of the staff and track record in general, as well as it's use of generous grants for noble purposes, one of Valley's selling points is it's Ridgewood address, which they do play up. Hopefully they come up with a reasonable plan. They bought the whole strip on the east side of Maple where Village ford and maple cleaners were located. Maybe they're expanding their satellite network.

Paul I hope you are right about them expanding on Maple Ave. That location is more conducive because right now, there really isn't anything in those locations except empty buildings and there is ample parking for patients. And they can build the kind of building that will work best for them depending on what they would put there instead of having to renovate an existing building.

Lisa, why is it that only Ridgewood residents are entitled to a hospital 2 minutes from their home? Valley didn't care that the residents of Harrington Park, Old Tappan and Norwood wanted a hospital in THEIR community. In fact, Valley spent millions trying to stop those people from having that same privilege. Hmmmmm....

The first half of this post is right on. Lets see the plan before deciding we don't like it. It is counterproductive to just say "no."

The parking garage the last time is a perfect example. The hospital can't win. People complain about parking. They suggest building an above-ground garage. Residents complain about the above-ground garage being ugly. So they propose a more expensive underground garage. Residents complain about the impact on the water table. Each of these issues is understandable but you have to help find a compromise. There needs to be more parking (even if they don't expand the hospital). Now how do we make that happen with minimal impact on the neighbors?

Longtimer66 you are right and beautifully said. Of course they can do it! They chose not to go offsite in a bigger way. Since they did lose, they will have to do something in that vein. And you are right about the ER. I have heard stories from other people of very long waits, because they are so crowded. One patient told an ex-employee that he had waited 13 hours. That is not acceptable. I believe that will lessen when Pascack Valley reopens and they take the overflow of patients back.

Brian, re: the garage. Why don't they have a parking lot in a different location for employees and pay for a shuttle bus to get them to the hospital? That's what they would have to do if they were allowed to rebuild on the scale they were planning to. That wouldn't have to be that big a parking lot either.

Good question Ron. They may not be because they are considered a non-profit, and that is a tiny part of the hospital. They have a, I believe, a free clinic, or low-paying one, and that is the only part that would be considered non-profit. They don't accept Medicaid or the NJ insurance plan for indigent families with children. I forgot what it's called.

Valley does pay prop taxes on many of its non-hosp properties in Ridgewood. You can see the numbers at this link (public record) which is also accessible from Rwd web site:
https://wipp.edmundsassoc.com/Wipp0251/

On that screen, enter "Society" then hit search and a list will come up -- both residential and commercial properties. That's because the legal name is Society of the Valley Hospital. The residential properties it owns will come up as c/o Gilsenan, who apparently manages them for Valley.

Mr. Gilsenan was one of the folks who spoke on Valley's behalf during the Council hearings, though I don't think he mentioned that connection.

Currently at same lookup site, the former Vill Ford property shows as being owned by an acquisition corporation whose address is c/o a legal firm.

I agree with many others though that Valley should be paying some form of PILOT or other fees for the hospital property to Village, though it does not do so presently.
Tiger Team report seemed to concur with that too.

Pascack WILL be paying prop taxes to its host town. I don't know if HUMC makes PILOT payments to Hackensack or not for that campus though. Also don't know if Valley makes any payments to Paramus for its sites there (Luckow, Kraft, etc).

I read the article. It's an indictment on the system as is. The corruption of greed that infests the industry via lobbyists and their concubine public servants is unreal. Administrators earning more than physicians is particularly galling, but that's the way of our nation these days.

Thank you so much Ellie for the info. on the Time's hospital issue! Audrey Meyers must be hyperventilating and praying that Ridgewood residents don't read it. I have already posted the link on Facebook and will be emailing the link to my friends. I have read a few pages already, but I am so angry and it becomes mind-numbing to read it all at once. But I will keep going at it. I agree that only all of the posters should read it, but all of America should read it too. It is beyond eyeopening.

Read the article John and your views will change.

Hopefully you didn't suffer brain damage. Wait until the plan comes out. The patch will be on overload.The equivalent of at least 3 colonoscopies.

good retort. touche.

Exactly. What people don't understand is that Valley is a drain because it pays NO real estate taxes in this town. Pascack Valley paid taxes to Westwood before it closed, and it will pay at least a million dollars to the town when it reopens. Wonder how that money could help this town if Valley paid us taxes. I suspect it would help our school system a great deal so we wouldn't have to cut programs. But that's the last thing Valley really wants to do, is help our kids. Years ago they wanted to put an underground garage under playing fields. Wonder where the carbon monoxide would be vented to. And they suggested that our children cross No. Van Dien to the other side opposite BF when the dump trucks and other vehicles would enter and leave the driveways the children cross now to get to school. Instead of finding a safer way for our kids to get to school. Or to cross the driveways.

We pay big buck to live here because the school system is funded by our taxes! Get your facts straight. What Marla was saying what makes us feel that we deserve to have our hospital, and that the towns surrounding Pascack Valley don't deserve to have it reopen. Valley and Englewood, among others, tried to prevent that from happening. And Marla is NOT advocating closing Valley. That's the bogus attitude Valley and supporters are trying to pass off as scare tactics so to allow Valley to do what they want. And Pascack Valley closed its doors because of mismanagement involving the overpriced renovations that Pascack Valley undertook before they closed. Got that info. from attending meetings in Washington Township. Could happen here too. And you are wrong about that fact. Maybe you should attend meetings like I did for 4 years so that you could get the real facts.

Once again you are wrong Lisa! The facts are that they overspent on renovations! I got that from Westwood officials at a meeting in Westwood. Maybe if you had bothered to attend meetings you would actually know what's going on! And I am passionate because of the outright arrogance, and strong arm tactics of Valley in trying to get what they want. And because of the ignorance of so many residents to what is happening to our town.

And entitlement is an assumption that something is deserved for an elite few. The reality is that the residents of this town pay enough in property taxes, and by the way, did you know that houses have gone down in value in this town? That was in the Ridgewood News and that assessments on certain houses have gone down. So let's let Valley double in size, add 4 developments and then lets see what the new price of living here will be and who be willing to pay it. My feeling is that you wouldn't like the changes and the new residents better than what we have now.

Really? What properties around town? Do you even have one fact to tell you how much Valley owes this town in taxes if they actually paid them? It's a considerable amount of money. And our town could use it. Our schools have continually had to cut programs, look at the tree service, where we have to outsource maintenance, etc.

And it's much more than what they pay for utilities!

Lisa I am not a fan of ignorance, greed, arrogance, strong arming and fake PR. However, that is the administration, if you knew your facts, we are not attacking the staff. They are not the problem. They don't make the decision. The board and the administration make the final decisions. And like many ignorant people, you believe everything Valley says, and you seem to keep ignoring the fact, that we don't want it to move. The truth is don't want it to double!

And if you knew anything, this only started because of the overflow of traffic from Pascack Valley's patients and because Valley was preparing for the renovation they assumed they would be allowed to do.